Liberty Center Options

What Really Happened at the Liberty Center meeting of the Property and Grounds Committee 

I'm convinced that I must have been at a different meeting of the Property and Grounds Committee on Tuesday, November 12th, because what I saw, was a lot different than what was reported on an alternative blog.

The manner in which it was reported there made it appear as if the room jumped for joy at the very mention of a miniature golf project.

NOT !!!!!

...Now let's tell you the real UNBIASED story of what took place.

A number of options were discussed which included the following:

1. Merely completing the bocce courts.

2. Building a horseshoe pit.

3. Building a croquet park.

4. Building a miniature golf park

5. Expanding the parking facilities at Liberty Center

6. Building convertible shuffle board courts.

7. Building an additional tennis court.

...and each individual who presented alternatives should be commended for the time they took in presenting the various ideas.

...as well as a special commendation to P & G chairman, Burt Davis, who did a GREAT JOB of moderating it along with a coordinated effort on the part of all committee members, of what many originally believed, would be chaotic.

This was a GOOD MEETING, and I walked away from it believing that this committee consisted of REASONABLE INDIVIDUALS who would look at the numerous proposals in an objective manner.

Now...to those who presented the various concepts in a brief, but HONEST critique.....as well as the audience and committee commentary.

The "filling in the hole" by merely completing the existing bocce courts, as well as, the horseshoe pits were rejected by the committee for further vetting.

In those particular cases, it appeared that the bocce completion was less than what people preferred for that site, and the horseshoe pit was rejected saying that we already had one and was not being used.

What was rather humorous was the P & G Chairman saying "until now, I didn't even realize we had one"---with almost the entire audience looking at each other with expressions that indicated "me either". But...we shall revisit the horseshoe pit a bit later in this discussion.

A croquet park was presented by Today's Anthem View owner, Ron Johnson.  His proposal suggested removing the entire bocce court unfinished area, and covering it with "astro turf".  The approximate cost of this option was estimated at $60,000; however, this estimate did not include the costs of demolition of the existing bocce courts.

The croquet park was ACCEPTED for VETTING.

The miniature golf course was then presented by David Berman.

Yes, it was ACCEPTED for VETTING...but unlike the version told on his publication...there was A LOT MORE to the story.

In a written statement that was read to the committee and audience, Mr. Berman proudly proclaimed that this venture had the signatures of about 650-670 people on a petition in its support.  He mentioned that it would be costly, somewhere in the neighborhood of between $80,000 and $100,000; plus between $10,000 and $12,500 every three to seven years to resurface the putting greens; that this option would literally be "God's gift" to Sun City Anthem !

He demonstrated an artist's conception and he proceeded to attempt to dazzle the audience with rhetoric of how clubs would be established, that it would benefit everyone, no noise, and..even a special putter for those who played !

Then it came time for a few comments and questions...

..and this is the rest of the miniature golf story that took place.

A real estate agent made a comment that "this would enhance property values, that baby boomers would flock to Sun City Anthem" if this was constructed.

...and the committee promptly cut her off by saying "We get it, you're for it".

Then up came Anthem Today's Rana Goodman with a slide presentation of the Summerlin miniature golf course...but...before she began her critique, something else took place....

...she looked at Mr. Berman and asked him a few questions.

Rana would ask him....did that $80,000-$100,000 estimate include demolition, landscaping, regular maintenance, additional water usage, draining, and on and on, and if his petition included any such costs?

A rather frustrated Mr. Berman, obviously not expecting such a detailed rebuttal,  then looked at her and in what appeared to be a "4th and 10" situation....

...and "punted" that question by saying, the Asset Enhancement Fee would pick up the tab, that it wouldn't have any bearing on increasing dues...avoiding the direct questions she had asked.

Then...Board member, Dan Forgeron, spoke... paraphrasing him, saying "David that's not correct".  This isn't free; there is a cost, and it does have a bearing on dues and funds; that the Asset Enhancement Fund does cost residents money when they sell their homes, and maintenance costs do have a direct bearing on the dues payments. 

I was told by two individuals that the confident Mr. Berman, appeared quite frustrated at Mr. Forgeron's comment. 

This was supposed to be "his day in the sun", but the storm clouds were beginning to form in questions and comments which appeared to catch the ears and attention of both the committee and the audience.

Where were those 650 petitioners ?

Not here...except one or two!

Suddenly a man named Dwight Leurssen rose to make this statement.

Paraphrasing him he stated "I did sign that petition, but no one ever explained the total costs associated with it, and I wish I never would have, now that I am better informed".

Then yours truly took the microphone and brought out a couple of additional aspects not previously addressed...a closed miniature golf course close to Sun City Anthem (a detailed article will follow)...

...and LIABILITY....the associated problems with such a facility that I learned after contacting a large insurance brokerage firm in Chicago and speaking with a former associate who did have experience at insuring homeowners associations, one of which had a miniature golf course.

I owned an insurance agency for 35 years prior to my retirement.

The concerns included law suit possibilities resulting from tripping and falling on cement areas used to enclose the balls when putted, and the possibility of some child not being observed properly, taking a hack at a ball as if he were Tiger Woods, striking another player, a pedestrian, or a car windshield...

...that this venture would not fall within the general association coverage, and would have a special insurance assessment....if accepted at all, by an insurer...

...that to avoid the possibilility of "golf balls" injuring others or damaging property, a fence completely surrouding the project should be considered...with yet additional expense.

The committee appeared to listen attentively to that, and I urged them to contact the association insurance broker and company to get clarification of these concerns if this project would be vetted.

One of the committee members asked Dan Forgeron if this was a concern, and he was silent....obviously not aware of such matters.

During my presentation, I, and others, observed Mr. Berman's laughter while making my comments.

...and this FORMER attorney...then jumped up saying that by playing on a miniature golf course, one assumes personal liability, that it was of little concern.

...That would stop a lawyer from filing a law suit ????

...That would avoid the costs of defending any action, or the bearing on insurance premiums...no matter who would win or lose ????

Then yet another resident stood and brought out that a miniature golf course would involve daily maintenance of cleaning leaves and other trash if used...adding yet additional cost.

Oh well, that's the rest of the "mini-golf" story....and...needless to say, it had the most opponents...all of which brought detailed and helpful information...with one objective....

GET THE FULL FACTS...NOT JUST THE ONES SOMEONE WANTS YOU TO HEAR !

Then came the other presenters...one by one.

Expansion of the parking facilities. This individual making the proposal, Dwight Luerssen,  made a great deal of sense.  The Liberty Center has finally been "discovered" by many residents, is being used with much greater regularity, and the parking area is quite limited, and that the bocce space could be used to expand it...to accommodate the increasing patronage.

This item was ACCEPTED for VETTING...without any objections.

A tennis court was proposed for the area by Tennis Club president, Ed Ritz, stating that membership in that club was rapidly increasing..and in need of additional courts as a a result of the substantial increase.. There were a few questions as to need due to having such facilities at Anthem Center, but nonetheless....

This item was ACCEPTED for VETTING.

Finally, our own Mr. Fix-It proposed a concept of using the existing bocce facilities by first completing their original construction, but also purchasing removable "shuffleboard" courts that could be placed on top of the existing bocce area...thus providing a DUAL purpose.

This idea caught the attention of the committee, one even asking...

"Could two of the courts be converted to a horseshoe pit with the others offering bocce and/or shuffleboard?

The answer was YES.

...A multi-purpose facility allowing residents an opportunity for a CHOICE, and the likelihood of more people using that area due to having that choice.

The cost (not including the horseshoe pit idea) was approximately $14,000. 

Forrest Fetherolf's shuffleboard presentation included a formal quote for the project detailing all costs of material and labor. 

Maintenance would be minimal, there would be no need for landscaping or irrigation draining changes.

...and an announcement that I was able to confirm as part of The Vegas Voice staff...that The Vegas Voice would SPONSOR TWO SHUFFLEBOARD TOURNAMENTS A YEAR if this option is chosen.

This too was UNAMIMOUSLY ACCEPTED for VETTING.

So that's the "real story"

...but to make sure all residents have a say in this matter, a suggestion was made by Board Member, Jim Long, that a special "email address box" be

established for your comments pro and con these various vetted alternatives...a great idea !

We will provide you that email address once it is established.

So...to conclude this article, let me summarize it by saying...

1. We have a bunch of choices.

2. This committee appeared to show true concern for doing the right thing.

3. Don't believe EVERYHING YOU READ.

4. Don't sign any petition that affects your financial well-being without knowing ALL THE FACTS. 

I am confident that the Property and Grounds Committee can come to a conclusion based on FULL FACTS, and the NEEDS and WANTS of an entire community.

Dick Arendt